IT-LIST Digest 54Topics covered in this issue include:  1) Electron microscopical immunogold quantification	by "Francisco Javier Medina"   2) DT3155 and Win95 -Reply	by "R. Naimi"   3) IT and Win95	by Gary Marshall   4) Why ?	by "Stephen T. Haley, II"   5) more robust version?	by Brett Shoelson   6) DT 3155 & OS compatibilty	by Gary Marshall   7) DT3155 and WinNT	by Gary Marshall   8) Re: more robust version?	by p.d.lee@ic.ac.uk  9) Re: more robust version?	by "Henrik Guldberg Pedersen"  10) Re: DT3155 and WinNT	by dcm@image.bio.bnl.gov (Denise Monteleone) 11) find objects	by Christian Broesamle  12) Re: find objects	by "Dr. Bin Yu"  13) Snappy ?	by "R. Naimi" ----------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:27:44 -0600From: "Francisco Javier Medina" To: "Image Tool (IT-List)" Subject: Electron microscopical immunogold quantificationMessage-ID: <199610281718.SAA11699@fresno.csic.es>Hi,Did anybody try to quantify immunogold labeling on electron micrographsusing Image Tool? Has anybody developed a macro or a plug-in with this purpose?For people not expert with immunogold labeling:Electron micrographs of labeled cells consist of cell structures with somesmall round particles (colloidal gold particles) on them. The problem ofquantification is essentially a problem of point density, that is, ofcounting the number of particles and measuring the area of the cellstructure in which they are contained. With Image Tool I can count pointsand measure areas, but cell structures are often anular (the area is thesubstraction from a larger object of one or more smaller ones within it).Furthermore, I need to deal simultaneously with several differentstructures, all of them contained in the same micrograph.Ideally, I would like to get a 'Results' sheet containing a series of areaswith their respective number of particles just by them. The rest can beresolved with Excel.Thank you in advance.===========================================FRANCISCO JAVIER MEDINACentro de Investigaciones Biologicas (CSIC)Velazquez 144, E-28006 Madrid, Spain-------------------------------------------Email: cibjm65@fresno.csic.es -------------------------------------------Telephone: +34 1 561 18 00 ext. 4261Direct telephone: +34 1 564 45 62 (*)4261Fax: +34 1 562 75 18===========================================------------------------------Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 17:58:00 +001 (GMT0)From: "R. Naimi" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: DT3155 and Win95 -ReplyMessage-ID: <3274F4AC.92FC.0000@lut.ac.uk>Hi Gary,I would like to mention that you are not alone,I have been struggling for the last month and I can't get DT3155 to work properly with IT.If I get it to work, I'll let you know....Cheers,Naimi------------------------------Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:47:38 -0800 (PST)From: Gary Marshall To: IT-LIST Subject: IT and Win95Message-ID: Hello again,The Data Translations Acquisition plug-in providessupport for video image capture using the OpenLayers video capture standard developed by DataTranslations.  Typically, these cards provide 8bit capture capabilities, with real-time video whenWindows is running in a 256 color graphics mode.ImageTool currently provides support for the DT3152and DT3155 cards under both Windows 95 and Windows NT.This is from IT's help file.  If anyone is successfully using IT to capture images under Windows 95, I'd like to hear from you.Gary MarshallUCLA Dept. of Chemistry & BiochemistryTelephone: 310 825 7193FAX:       310 206 5381------------------------------Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 14:09:53 ESTFrom: "Stephen T. Haley, II" To: IT-LIST@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Why ?Message-ID: <1A9051744A1@dcsmserver.med.sc.edu>Hello List members,     I have just started using Image Tool for quantitative analysis of confocal micrographs. I have noticed that when I use the "find objects" command I can find more or less objects depending on which pallete I am using.  Furthermore, since I have observed this I wonder if  my choice of pallete will have an impact on the flourescence intensity measurements?  Any hints to quantitative fluroescence measurements will be greatly appreciated by this starving graduate student.Stephen T. Haley------------------------------Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:42:31 -0600 (CST)From: Brett Shoelson To: IT-LIST@sparky.uthscsa.edu (ImageTech Group)Subject: more robust version?Message-ID: <199610281942.OAA98172@rs5.tcs.tulane.edu>Hi. I'm new to IT, and have been playing with the program quite a bitlately trying to learn the finer points of it. While I appreciate thefree software, I'm finding that IT is very quirky on my computer (486PC, 16 Meg) and shuts down unexpectedly quite often. If I try to load astack I created, I get an "out of memory" message after a while and thecomputer quits. If I try to load several images, or to do certain tasks,the computer quits. This can get very frustrating.Now I'm wondering if others are finding IT as quirky as I am, or ifthere is a more robust version in the works. Any comments or suggestionswill be appreciated.Thanks,Brett-- ***************************************************************************"My wife and I were happy for twenty years. Then we met."                                        --Rodney DangerfieldBrett Shoelson 	              bshoels@rs6000.tcs.tulane.eduDept. of Biomedical Engineering, Tulane University*****************************************************************************------------------------------Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:26:01 -0800 (PST)From: Gary Marshall To: IT-LIST Subject: DT 3155 & OS compatibiltyMessage-ID: Hello,We talked to the folks at Data Translation.  If you have the SDK kit for Win95 you can get IT to work with the DT3155 card by first removing IT completely from your machine.  Then install the SDK kit and finally reinstall IT.  Presumably IT scans to find the SDK kit drivers when installed.  He mentioned something about dethunkers and thunkers (which does something to allow 16bit code to work in a 32bit OS).  We haven't tried it yet, so good luck.Gary MarshallUCLA Dept. of Chemistry & BiochemistryTelephone: 310 825 7193FAX:       310 206 5381------------------------------Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:28:13 -0800 (PST)From: Gary Marshall To: IT-LIST Subject: DT3155 and WinNTMessage-ID: Hello,Does anyone have the DT3155 card working in WinNT?  What do you need to do this?  We would like to use IT.  Do we need Data Translations SDK kit for NT to be able use IT.  And does IT work with NT 4.0 or just 3.51?Thanks,Gary MarshallUCLA Dept. of Chemistry & BiochemistryTelephone: 310 825 7193FAX:       310 206 5381------------------------------Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:13:51 GMTFrom: p.d.lee@ic.ac.ukTo: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: more robust version?Message-ID: <9610290913.ZM19814@calvin.mt.ic.ac.uk>On Oct 28,  1:39pm, Brett Shoelson wrote:> Subject: more robust version?> ...> computer quits. If I try to load several images, or to do certain tasks,> the computer quits. This can get very frustrating.>> Now I'm wondering if others are finding IT as quirky as I am, or if> there is a more robust version in the works. Any comments or suggestions> will be appreciated.> Thanks,> BrettI'm having the same problem. It is rare when I use IT fora new task and I do not get the programme crashing. Worseif you do anything wrong with the aquire menu, Win95 leavesthe error message up, and you have to reboot to get rideof it. (It is already in a trap, so cntl-alt-del does notstop the task? Only a power off works, since win95 will notshutdown.)It would be nice if it was better tested. Is there an alpha/betatesting programme? Whom should we send bug repots to? The web pagestates this list server is the place, but I've yet to see a postingfrom someone working on the software.Cheers,Peter-- Peter D. Lee, p.d.lee@ic.ac.uk, Room RSM G11Department of Materials, Imperial CollegePrince Consort Road, London SW7 2BPTel: 0171 594-6801; Fax: 0171 584-3194------------------------------Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:28:19 +0000From: "Henrik Guldberg Pedersen" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: more robust version?Message-ID: <199610291407.PAA31411@mail.kemi.dtu.dk>> On Oct 28,  1:39pm, Brett Shoelson wrote:> > Subject: more robust version?> > ...> > computer quits. If I try to load several images, or to do certain tasks,> > the computer quits. This can get very frustrating.> >> > Now I'm wondering if others are finding IT as quirky as I am, or if> > there is a more robust version in the works. Any comments or suggestions> > will be appreciated.> > Thanks,> > Brett> > I'm having the same problem. It is rare when I use IT for> a new task and I do not get the programme crashing. Worse> if you do anything wrong with the aquire menu, Win95 leaves> the error message up, and you have to reboot to get ride> of it. (It is already in a trap, so cntl-alt-del does not> stop the task? Only a power off works, since win95 will not> shutdown.)> > It would be nice if it was better tested. Is there an alpha/beta> testing programme? Whom should we send bug repots to? The web page> states this list server is the place, but I've yet to see a posting> from someone working on the software.> Actually, I think we should give the programmers a little credit for their work. It is not a commercial product with the recources for intensive testing. I have been working with IT on both '486 (8 and 16 MB RAM) and (presently) on a Pentium 133, 16 MB RAM. IT is not only faster on the Pentium but also more stable. Since I am not using IT for framegrabbing, I guess that I don't have the same problems as you.Perhaps you should record the steps just prior to the system chrash an send information to Don Wilcox From:  or S. Brent Dove . It seems, that he (they) are really listening topeoples concrete problems and try to solve them as soon as possible. Compared to the old DOS based software, that I am used to, IT is a major improvement - also in relation to stability.Just my opinion---------------------------------------------------------Henrik Guldberg PedersenPermanent address:               Temporary address:Department of Chemistry          Institute of Surface ChemistryMaterials Science Group          Materials and Coatings SectionTechnical University of Denmark  KTHBld. 204                         Box 5607DK-2800 Lyngby                   S-114 86 StockholmPhone: + 45 45 25 22 47          Phone: + 46 8 790 9976Fax: + 45 45 93 48 86            Fax: + 46 8 20 89 98E-Mail: hgp@kemi.dtu.dkURLs: http://130.225.65.163/matsci/phd/hgp.htmhttp://130.225.65.163/matsci/http://www.kemi.dtu.dk/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:45:29 -0500From: dcm@image.bio.bnl.gov (Denise Monteleone)To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: DT3155 and WinNTMessage-ID: <199610291445.JAA19718@image.bio.bnl.gov>	I have it working with NT verion 3.51 and yes you need the SDK. I also	recommend you have at least 32MB of RAM. As for NT verion 4.0, I have	not tryed IT with it yet because I heard it may slow down Image Tools	startup time and that worried me.	 	 	 	 				Denise Monteleone	 				Programmer/Analyst	 				Brookhaven National Laboratory------------------------------Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 18:56:48 +0100From: Christian Broesamle To: "it-list@sparky.uthscsa.edu" Subject: find objectsMessage-ID: <32764560.1FDF@hifo.unizh.ch>Hello all,I am trying to automatically count objects in an image by using the findobjects tool. However IT comes up with the message "too many objects".How many objects can IT actually handle?Christian-- ************************************************************Christian Broesamle            email: broesam@hifo.unizh.chBrain Research Institute         tel: +41 1 385 6333University of Zurich             fax: +41 1 422 2262CH-8029 Zurich                  http://www.hifo.unizh.chSwitzerland************************************************************------------------------------Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 14:45:32 -0500From: "Dr. Bin Yu" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: find objectsMessage-ID: <32765EDC.72A@cps.msu.edu>Christian Broesamle wrote:> > Hello all,> I am trying to automatically count objects in an image by using the find> objects tool. However IT comes up with the message "too many objects".> How many objects can IT actually handle?> Christian> --> ************************************************************> Christian Broesamle            email: broesam@hifo.unizh.ch> Brain Research Institute         tel: +41 1 385 6333> University of Zurich             fax: +41 1 422 2262> CH-8029 Zurich                  http://www.hifo.unizh.ch> Switzerland> ************************************************************Based on my experience, 1000 or fewer.------------------------------Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:50:00 +001 (GMT0)From: "R. Naimi" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Snappy ?Message-ID: <3277876E.92FC.0000@lut.ac.uk>Hi everyone,I am considering to get another frame grabber board to work with IT. Is thereany suggestions? I was trying to get DT3155 to work, but it is just a long headache all along. I have basically tried for 3 months, and the DT guys arehopeless. I want to send their card back and get a fresh start.So if there is any suggestions, please let me know of the board and the vendor.cheers,Naimi------------------------------End of IT-LIST Digest 54