IT-LIST Digest 42Topics covered in this issue include:  1) Re: "Find objects"	by "Dr. Bin Yu"   2) "Find objects ??"	by ramesh   3) Kodak Photo -CD	by BRIAN ELLIS   4) Stacks in Image Tool	by "Keith Williams"   5) Re: "Find objects ??"	by "Dr. Bin Yu"   6) Re: Stacks in Image Tool	by "Don Wilcox"   7) IT plug-in for VFW compatible video grabbers	by James Zheng   8) Gel documentation	by Coady Michael   9) Re: IT plug-in for VFW compatible video grabbers	by "S. Brent Dove"  10) DTOL won't work with IT 1.25 under WIN 95	by "Peter D. Cherry"  11) Re: DTOL won't work with IT 1.25 under WIN 95	by Linnea Ista  12) fractal analysis	by Ken McCaffrey ----------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:46:46 -0500From: "Dr. Bin Yu" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: "Find objects"Message-ID: <32260FC6.2F93@cps.msu.edu>ramesh wrote:> > Hi guys> > can somebody help me here ?> > I am working on mechanical properties of fibre-reinforced composites; and> I tried using the "find objects" command on the black & white image> (obtained from a color image which has a non-equalized histogram).  Any> of the three methods (manual thresholding, automatic or no thresholding)> does not seem to work.  A window appears saying that " too many objects.> Change thresholding parameters".> > The same thing happens even if I use "smooth a lot" filter.> > What exactly are thresholding parameters ? And how do I make the ITools> find objects before I can start analysis and classification ?> > Thanks> > RameshThe number of objects in IT is limited (to 1000?). So you must select asuitable threshold to make noise objects to minimum.Bin Yu------------------------------Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:44:12 -0700 (PDT)From: ramesh To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: "Find objects ??"Message-ID: I am working on mechanical properties of fibre-reinforced composites and I use the find objects command on the black & white image (obtained from a color image which has a non-equalized histogram).  In fact, I use the "smooth a lot" filter on the image before i use the find objects command.I have two questions :1) When I select "find objects", a dialog prompts me to select from manual thresholding, automatic thresholding or no thresholding.  All these commands seem to result in the same message, namely "too many objects.  Change thresholding parameters".  What are "THRESHOLDING PARAMETERS"  how can they be adjusted/changed.2) When I go to the "settings-preferences-find objects page", and I select "automatically find objects" and click on APPLU and OK ; and then I come back to the same page again on settings ( namely settings-preferences-find objects), I find the selection has moved to "manually select objects".    What exactly is going on here ?Thanks to Dr. Bin Yu @cps.msu.edu for the following suggestion:>The number of objects in IT is limited (to 1000?). So you must select a>suitable threshold to make noise objects to minimum.>Bin YuWhat exactly does "threshold" mean ?Ramesh------------------------------Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 21:53:07 -0600From: BRIAN ELLIS To: "it-list@sparky.uthscsa.edu" Cc: "P. Butterfield" ,Subject: Kodak Photo -CDMessage-ID: <322665A2.93F@montana.campus.mci.net>Hi There:           I think you might have a problem with the IT ver. 1.25. Itdoesn't seem to be able to open Kodak Photo-CD files. I downloaded thenew version and kept the old version (1.23 which can, and still doesopen the files) in another directory whereas the new version gives methe old "this program has executed an illegal command" and causes anexit of the  version 1.25. I didn't run the undelete on the old program,but I have a friend who did and reinstalled the new version and he ranup against the same problem. The program seems to recognize that I wantto open a Kodak Photo-CD image file, but it won't open the file at anyresolution I specify. I'm running a P-133, 48 Meg Ram, and I know the1.23 Ver had (and does) no problem opening these files. Any help wouldbe appreciated.Thanks,Brian Ellis------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 08:30:31 GMT-0200From: "Keith Williams" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Stacks in Image ToolMessage-ID: We have a copy of ImageTool 1.23 and have the following two questions to ask:1) When trying to start a new stack we receive a error message "Illegal Operation".2) Are there any plug-ins being developed for doing 3D particle analysis on stacked images?********************************Keith WilliamsExperimental Biology ProgrammeMedical Research CouncilTygerberg, SAemail: kwilliam@eagle.mrc.ac.za*********************************------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 09:11:32 -0500From: "Dr. Bin Yu" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: "Find objects ??"Message-ID: <3226F694.48BC@cps.msu.edu>ramesh wrote:> > I am working on mechanical properties of fibre-reinforced composites and> I use the find objects command on the black & white image (obtained from> a color image which has a non-equalized histogram).  In fact, I use the> "smooth a lot" filter on the image before i use the find objects command.> > I have two questions :> > 1) When I select "find objects", a dialog prompts me to select from> manual thresholding, automatic thresholding or no thresholding.  All> these commands seem to result in the same message, namely "too many> objects.  Change thresholding parameters".  What are "THRESHOLDING> PARAMETERS"  how can they be adjusted/changed.> > 2) When I go to the "settings-preferences-find objects page", and I> select "automatically find objects" and click on APPLU and OK ; and then I> come back to the same page again on settings ( namely> settings-preferences-find objects), I find the selection has moved to> "manually select objects".    What exactly is going on here ?> > Thanks to Dr. Bin Yu @cps.msu.edu for the following suggestion:> > >The number of objects in IT is limited (to 1000?). So you must select a> >suitable threshold to make noise objects to minimum.> > >Bin Yu> > What exactly does "threshold" mean ?> > RameshIn general meaning, a threshold value will divide an image to twoclasses. One consists of black pixels whose original gray level value islower the threshold and the other consists of white pixels whoseoriginal gray value is larger than the threshold. It should have thesame meaning in IT.Wish you luck,Bin------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 07:35:01 -0700From: "Don Wilcox" To: Subject: Re: Stacks in Image ToolMessage-ID: <199608301449.HAA02498@dogbert.xroads.com>----------> From: Keith Williams > To: wilcox@xroads.com> Subject: Stacks in Image Tool> Date: Thursday, August 29, 1996 1:00 PM> > We have a copy of ImageTool 1.23 and have the following two questions > to ask:> > 1) When trying to start a new stack we receive a error message>  "Illegal Operation".This has been fixed in version 1.25> > 2) Are there any plug-ins being developed for doing 3D particle > analysis on stacked images?Not to my knowledge.Don------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:29:52 -0400From: James Zheng To: "'it-list@sparky.uthscsa.edu'" Subject: IT plug-in for VFW compatible video grabbersMessage-ID: <01BB9666.907C0CA0@rwja.umdnj.edu.umdnj.edu>Hello,Is anybody interested in writing an acquisition plug-in for video =grabbers compiled to Microsoft Video for Windows?  Should it be easy?  I =realize that there are standard Windows 32-bit APIs for video capture =purpose.  I have a TRUEVISION's Bravado 1000 PCI card.  I will be VERY =happy if IT can use it to capture images. =20Please let me know if the IT team or other ones is planning to do it.  =Otherwise I will try to do it but it will take long.  I am a biologist.  =James Zheng, Ph.D.UMDNJ-RWJMS------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 11:43:33 -0400 (EDT)From: Coady Michael To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Gel documentationMessage-ID: Hi all,	We are going to set up a system using either NIH Image or ImageTools, and I'd like to know if anybody is using IT for documentation of ethidium bromide gels.  Any advice welcome.MikeMichael J. Coady, Ph.D.COADY@ERE.UMONTREAL.CAThe opinions expressed above are solely those of the author and do not,in any way, shape or form, represent the Universite de Montreal.------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:00:36 -0500 (CDT)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: IT plug-in for VFW compatible video grabbersMessage-ID: <01I8VYWTY0LW00130Q@uthscsa.edu>Recently on ITList James Zheng wrote:>Is anybody interested in writing an acquisition plug-in for video =>grabbers compiled to Microsoft Video for Windows?  Should it be easy?  I =>realize that there are standard Windows 32-bit APIs for video capture =>purpose.  I have a TRUEVISION's Bravado 1000 PCI card.  I will be VERY =>happy if IT can use it to capture images. =20>>Please let me know if the IT team or other ones is planning to do it.  =>Otherwise I will try to do it but it will take long.  I am a biologist.  =If ImageTool users feel that this would be a worth doing.  Please compile a list of image acquisition boards which support the Microsoft Video for Windows API.  If these is enough demand we can look into the feasibility of developing an acquisition plug-inBy the way we are currently working on acquisition plug-ins for both Matrox Meteor and Pulsar as well as a color board from Coreco. So long for now.S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 13:58:53 -0400From: "Peter D. Cherry" To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: DTOL won't work with IT 1.25 under WIN 95Message-ID: <32272BDD.4790@scisun.sci.ccny.cuny.edu>I cannot acquire into IT via Data Translation DT3155.  However, thisdriver does work for Axon imaging Workbench.  What could be wrong?Result of selecting Data translation acquire function under IT 1.25: "Error calling DTOL routine:OllmgOpenDevice:OLC_STS_NOOPENDEVICE:Unableto open the specified DT-Open Layers imaging device driver.  Make surethat the device is not currently open."Result of attempting to configure device under preferences for DTOLfeature:> IT caused an invalid page fault in> module OWL50F.DLL at 053f:005ace8e.> Registers:> EAX=0095ed00 CS=053f EIP=005ace8e EFLGS=00010206> EBX=00976c57 SS=0547 ESP=0095e9f4 EBP=0095ea00> ECX=00976c57 DS=0547 ESI=05470000 FS=0f4f> EDX=005ad334 ES=0547 EDI=05470000 GS=0000> Bytes at CS:EIP:> 8b 76 7a ff 75 10 57 ff 55 0c 83 c4 08 3b 7b 76 > Stack dump:> 00000000 00976c57 00976c57 0095ea18 005ac51f 00976c57 005ac4f3 00000000 0095f2ec 0095ea68 005b2878 00976c57 00000000 0047674c 0095f2ec 00000000 :) Best regards Peter CherryCUNY Medical School------------------------------Date: Fri, 30 Aug 1996 12:47:47 -0600 (MDT)From: Linnea Ista To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: DTOL won't work with IT 1.25 under WIN 95Message-ID: On Fri, 30 Aug 1996, Peter D. Cherry wrote:> I cannot acquire into IT via Data Translation DT3155.  However, this> driver does work for Axon imaging Workbench.  What could be wrong?> Did you get the SDK program along with your card? I didn't because the person I spoke to when I ordered the DT3155 _assured_ me (after I had asked  "I don't need _anything else_ to acquire through IT?" about three times) that all I needed was the card. This is not true. I called DT when I found out about it and complained. They are sending me an SDK (or so they claim, it's been over a week ;-) )The other thing is to make sure you completely remove the old 1.23 version out of your system. I hadn't and this caused some problems too!Good luck,Linnea------------------------------Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 11:50:11 GMT0BSTFrom: Ken McCaffrey To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: fractal analysisMessage-ID: <2F2537CA4@crystal.kingston.ac.uk>Hi, I'm new to the list and have just downloaded the latest version ofImageTool. It seems to be exactly what we are looking for and we arevery thankful to have a user-friendly image analysis package for ourPCs at last!I would be interested to hear from anyone who has tried fractal analysis on images using either box counting or fourier transforms. We would probably threshold colour images to isolate the objects of interest (in our case components of rocks). I'm not sure whether to go the route ofdeveloping a plug-in to do the box counting or whether to save thethresholded image and do the box counting externally from ImageTool.Any advice gratefully received,Ken----------------------------------------------------------------Ken McCaffrey, Dept of Geological Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Road, Kingston, Surrey, KT1 2EE. U.K.Tel. 0181 547 2000 ext 2444            Fax. 0181 547 7497               E-mail k.mccaffrey@kingston.ac.uk----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------End of IT-LIST Digest 42