IT-LIST Digest 34Topics covered in this issue include:  1) Re: Particle size distribution plots and results sheet units	by mager@unixg.ubc.ca (Mary Mager)  2) acquisition plugin	by SCHERMESSER Patrick 112425   3) acquire with background subtraction	by "S. robert Hilfer"   4) Novice imager needs help....	by hclack@titanium.ME.Berkeley.EDU (Herek Lerron Clack)  5) Re: acquire with background subtraction	by "S. Brent Dove"   6) Re: Novice imager needs help....	by "S. Brent Dove"   7) Re: Novice imager needs help....	by read@boulder.nist.gov (David T. Read)  8) Re: Stacks	by mager@unixg.ubc.ca (Mary Mager)  9) Re: Stacks	by Fran\gois Richard  10) Snappy and IT	by JLinn24538@aol.com----------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:26:17 -0800From: mager@unixg.ubc.ca (Mary Mager)To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: Particle size distribution plots and results sheet unitsMessage-ID: Dear Keith,With regard to your second question, we found that it was necessary to loadthe magnification calibration again after you create the binary image, inorder to get the results in microns and square microns. The binary image isa new image, so the calibration has to be loaded to apply to it.Luck,MaryKeith Hallam wrote:>Only just started trying to use IT v.1.23 and have hit a couple of>snags.>Am I right in thinking that you cannot (yet?) get a graph of parameters>selected from the Object Analysis results (in my case, this first time,>I am really after a plot of number of particles as a function of>particle size)? I realise the results, after defining the parameter>(e.g. area) and classification bin values (though these didn't appear in>my results sheet, just 1,2,3.... numbers for the bins), can be exported>to Excel and a plot can be created there, but wouldn't it be nice to be>able to plot, say, number of objects as a function of selected parameter>with the parameter range split into either user defined classifications>or a defined number of bins, equally spaced?>Secondly, am I correct in assuming (from my experiments with the>software this afternoon) that spatial calibration only applies to>subsequent measurements of distance and area but not to the object>analysis results displayed in the results sheet? These always seemed to>give the same results, which I guess are in pixels, square pixels, etc.>rather than in calibrated units.>>Thankyou,>>Keith Hallam>University of Bristol>Interface Analysis CentreMary MagerElectron MicroscopistMetals and Materials Eng, UBC309 - 6350 Stores Rd.Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4CANADAtel: 604-822-5648, fax: 604-822-3619email: mager@unixg.ubc.ca------------------------------Date: Mon, 22 Jul 96 15:07:00 GMTFrom: SCHERMESSER Patrick 112425 To: "'Messagerie Liste Image Tool'" Subject: acquisition pluginMessage-ID: <31F37DA4@grenelle.saclay.cea.fr>I deseperatly try to use MY acquisition pluginsince 2 weeksI take dtolnt dll and i change some stringtable to see if my link works   well.Sure "about" worksBut when i want to acquire i have error cakking DTOL routine Ollnbgr OPen device Oll_sts_noopen device unable to open the specific etc...I try to use setting but there i have the same effects when i selectthe option with othe message likeexeption 5000 Ok to resume or in other case IT is breakdown   1) how i can put MY device not twain or other acquisition card2) Is there an SIMPLE example or any inputs to to an acquisition DLL ??? i have a look on sdk.hlp and it.hlp sorry but i can understandwhat is wrong.Any inputs are WELCOMEThanks in advancePAtrick      _..-'(                       )`-.._           Patrick Schermesser    (schermesser@cea.fr)    ./'. '||\\.       (\_/)       .//||` .`\.      CEA/CENG   DLETI/DSYS/SCSI ./'.|'.'||||\\|..    )o o(    ..|//||||`.`|.`\.     17 Avenue des   Martyrs./'..|'.|| |||||\`````` '`"'` ''''''/||||| ||.`|..\. 38054 Grenoble Cedex   9 FRANCE                                                     ------------------------------Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:33:29 -0400 (EDT)From: "S. robert Hilfer" To: image tools Subject: acquire with background subtractionMessage-ID: I am running IT on a pentium 120 with a DT3155 board, in NT.  I need to acquire images of fluorescence with an intensified CCD camera which has an uneven response across the field of view.  The IT help file list a DT open layers acquisition plugin which shows background subtraction as an option under the settings dialog.  I cannot find this when I go to acquire.  What am I doing wrong?Robert HilferDepartment of BiologyTemple University ------------------------------Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 14:09:13 -0700From: hclack@titanium.ME.Berkeley.EDU (Herek Lerron Clack)To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Novice imager needs help....Message-ID: <199607222109.OAA15004@titanium.ME.Berkeley.EDU>I would like to use ImageTool and a framegrabber to statistically analyze a liquid spray of droplets recordedon Hi-8 video tape.  The "expert" I have been referred tofor consultation has made it clear that he feels framegrabbingtechnology, especially using video images, is fraught withcomplexities and pitfalls and is generally a big hassle.Is anyone currently doing similar work, and if so, can you give me an idea of your hardware setup (read:  I need product recommendations) and the steps you perform toacquire images.I'm sure the list would appreciate responses be sent tome privately at hclack@euler.ME.berkeley.edu.Thanks a lot in advance for any help you can offer.Herek------------------------------Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:00:46 -0500 (CDT)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: acquire with background subtractionMessage-ID: <01I7MX0NUL6Q000U9W@uthscsa.edu>Recently on ITLIST>I am running IT on a pentium 120 with a DT3155 board, in NT.  I need to >acquire images of fluorescence with an intensified CCD camera which has >an uneven response across the field of view.  The IT help file list a DT >open layers acquisition plugin which shows background subtraction as an >option under the settings dialog.  I cannot find this when I go to >acquire.  What am I doing wrong?The Background Subtraction plugin is not part of the Open Layers acquisition plugin.  Each one of the tabs is a separate preferences sheet for an individual plugin.  The Background Subtraction is totally unrelated to the Data Translations Plugin.We are currently finishing a background correction that will allow correction of non uniform fields while acquiring a live image.  We should have this out by the end of the week.  I will send more information about the complete set of new plugins that will be released with version 1.25 which should ship first of next week.  Thanks for the input we hope to have a solution for your soon.  So long for now.S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 07:00:48 -0500 (CDT)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: Novice imager needs help....Message-ID: <01I7MX0PLA4M000U9W@uthscsa.edu>Recently on ITLIST>I'm sure the list would appreciate responses be sent to>me privately at hclack@euler.ME.berkeley.edu.Regarding applications and solutions to imaging problems I hope that all users can contribute and learn from others experiences.  This is a new list server and many users are new to image processing and basic problem solving using imaging technology.  Please share your ideas and experiences.  Thanks.S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 14:42:29 -0600From: read@boulder.nist.gov (David T. Read)To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: Novice imager needs help....Message-ID: <199607292051.OAA08615@arc1.mrd.bldrdoc.gov>Herek:I'm no expert, but I've tried a little frame grabbing, so I'll give somefree advice that's probably just about worth the cost.First, what's your speed requirement?  Mine is a sort of poorly defined"every few seconds".  If yours is "every few milliseconds" this may becompletely irrevelant.Second, is synchronization important?  I found I had trouble recognizinglight flashes and stuff that I put on the videotape to try to mark the time.Also, setting the time between frame grabs is tricky.  You would probablywant some kind of a macro language available to repeat the grab sequence.Third, quality.  I found the video-taped images adequate for my purposes,but better image quality would give me better data.Fourth, there's now a bewildering variety of cameras available, in differentformats.  Some are digital from the camera on, but I haven't found a realrapid way to store the images.  For me it's OK--I use a digital camera and asequence of acquiring, writing to the hard disk, and waiting.  This lets mestore several hundred images (1 gig hard drive) at a separation of about 4seconds.Fifth, how to store the data.  You can't leave it on the hard drive forlong.  For me, I write the digital images to a CD. Once you've got the CDwriter, it's cheap per data set, and you have some assurance that the datawill not be altered, and you can read them on any computer with a CD reader.Sixth, I solved my synchronization problem by using two computers for myexperiment--one for the camera, one for all the other data.  The dataacquisition computer sends an RS232 message to the camera computer every Ndata points, containing the data point number and a little other info.  Whenthe camera computer receives the message, it acquires and stores an image.The data point number and other identifying information is stored along withthe image, so voila, synchronization.Some of the guys here are using an expensive high speed video camera, andthen grabbing and analyzing the images, but I haven't heard that they'reusing any really nice procedures.  I think I've seen them slow-mo-ing theirway through the tape and grabbing the frame they want.Seventh, cavere.  I have taken up image analysis and processing as a hobby,and I program some of my own file conversion routines.  This may be helpful,though "you really ought" to be able to get the routines you need commercially.Dave ReadInformal communication from:     David T. Read     Materials Reliability Division, 853     National Institute of Standards and Technology     325 Broadway     Boulder, Colorado 80303     Phone:  303 497 3853     Fax:    303 497 5030------------------------------Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 20:18:37 -0800From: mager@unixg.ubc.ca (Mary Mager)To: IT-LIST@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: StacksMessage-ID: Dear All,I tried to use the "Stacks" for the first time and I was having a good timetrying out the various commands. There were 5 images in the stack.When Igot to the last command, called: "Show All" and clicked on it  the counterspun up to something around 500, then the program crashed. Ever since then,the IT program works fine, except for "Stacks". If I click "Stacks", "New"IT crashes every time, even though I have restarted the program and thecomputer several times since then. I guess I will have to reload theprogram. The images were all 640 X 480 X 8 bit TIFFs, except one was athresholded binary of one TIFF. Is there something I should know about"Stacks"? Am I correct in assuming it is for doing the same operation toseveral images that are essentially the same?Mary MagerElectron MicroscopistMetals and Materials Eng, UBC309 - 6350 Stores Rd.Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4CANADAtel: 604-822-5648, fax: 604-822-3619email: mager@unixg.ubc.ca------------------------------Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 09:28:19 -0400From: Fran\gois Richard To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Re: StacksMessage-ID: <31FF5F73.52B9@geol.uottawa.ca>I have been experiencing the exact same problem (re-installing did notsolve the problem). Stacks was working fine, until it crashed theprogram one day, and now it does it (crashing, that is) every time I tryusing it. Don Wilcox (one of the IT Gods...) found the bug and wrote:> I have managed to discover the source of this bug, and it will be fixed in the 1.25 > release of the software.> > DonHope this helps.Cheers,Fran¨ois.PS: Version 1.25 is scheduled for release early next week (dixit S.Brent Dove, another IT God)-- Fran¨ois A. Richard            Email: richard@geol.uottawa.caUniv. of Ottawa (Geology)      Tel:   (613) 562-5800, ext. 6850Ottawa (CANADA) K1N 6N5        Fax:   (613) 562-5192=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.geol.uottawa.ca/geo/lists/grads/richard/richard.htmMary Mager wrote:> > Dear All,> I tried to use the "Stacks" for the first time and I was having a good time> trying out the various commands. There were 5 images in the stack.When I> got to the last command, called: "Show All" and clicked on it  the counter> spun up to something around 500, then the program crashed. Ever since then,> the IT program works fine, except for "Stacks". If I click "Stacks", "New"> IT crashes every time, even though I have restarted the program and the> computer several times since then. I guess I will have to reload the> program. The images were all 640 X 480 X 8 bit TIFFs, except one was a> thresholded binary of one TIFF. Is there something I should know about> "Stacks"? Am I correct in assuming it is for doing the same operation to> several images that are essentially the same?> > Mary Mager> Electron Microscopist> Metals and Materials Eng, UBC> 309 - 6350 Stores Rd.> Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1Z4> CANADA> tel: 604-822-5648, fax: 604-822-3619> email: mager@unixg.ubc.ca------------------------------Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 23:55:05 -0400From: JLinn24538@aol.comTo: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: Snappy and ITMessage-ID: <960731235441_169138023@emout08.mail.aol.com>Dear List Members,I'm an NIH Image user using it for postural comparsion and analysis beforeand after myofascial soft tissue manipulation.  I have several colleagues whoare interested in doing something similar on the PC platform and IT looks tobe the best bet in the NIH Image price range (ie; free).  The Snappy alsolooks to be the best bet for the application.  After checking the archivesfor this list there seem to be several different opinions/experiencesregarding the Snappy.  Can someone with experience with the Snappy bring meup to date?  If it doesn't work with the current version are there plans forcompatability in future versions?  Are previous versions which the Snappy wascompatable with (?) still available?  I have also looked at the miroVideoVideo DCI plus and the Reveal Video Artist packages.  Any info regardingthese or other framegrabbers would be invaluable.  How about the macrolanguage?   Can acquisition and stack functions be macro'd (I use stackfunction in NIH Image to compare before and after treatment pictures to showchanges in posture)?Any help/information would be greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance.Jeff LinnThe Guild for Structural IntegrationBoulder, Colorado------------------------------End of IT-LIST Digest 34