IT-LIST Digest 10Topics covered in this issue include:  1) Re: ImageTool problems (fwd) + problems sending	by "S. Brent Dove"   2) Re: Apparent bugs	by "S. Brent Dove"   3) Re: Counting things	by "S. Brent Dove"   4) Re: ~binfltr.dll	by "S. Brent Dove"   5) Re: result difficult export	by "S. Brent Dove"   6) printing problems	by Przemko Tylzanowski   7) Re: ImageTool problems (fwd) + problems sending	by Jim McClean   8) a few quesiton?	by sshaib@lsumc.edu (Shaibani, Sanan)  9) RE: Development of ImageTool Plugins	by Don Wilcox  10) RE: ImageTool problems (fwd) + problems sending	by Don Wilcox ----------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:05:13 -0600 (CST)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: ImageTool problems (fwd) + problems sendingMessage-ID: <01I1K4AF6M9K006P7O@uthscsa.edu>>From IT-List:>If this is the wrong mail address for ImageTool problems, I apologise. I >did not think it right to send to the it-list list since this would mean > everyone would get a copy. Is this what is supposed to happen?This is the correct address.  Problems addresses here can be answered by persons other than the developers if necessary.>>Problems with ImageTool:->>After performing a FIND OBJECTS which works correctly, OBJECT ANALYSIS >reports ' ... no objects in the image'. At some stage I also get ' .. 1 >levels in threshold'. The SAMPLE SHOWING THE OBJECT ANALYSIS on the same >image gives 2 levels and correctly calculates the object measurements. This is a common misunderstanding.  The output of the Find Objects command produced an outline image for information purposes.  This image does not have the objects associated with it.  The confusion this feature brings has gotten it removed from the next release of IT.  As for the number of levels in the image, the sample image Blobs.tif has a very irregular histogram that confuses the automatic thresholding routine.  The sample pre-preocesses the image with a low-pass filter.  I intended to say this in the tutorial, but it failed to make it from my brain to the computer.  If you add a low-pass filtering step, you will see the expected behavior.>>Using INTERACTIVE HISTOGRAM STRETCH, the copy of the image is displayed >but the Histogram window does not appear.In version 1.1, IT did not correctly position the threshold window when the image was close to the right end of the monitor.  This has been fixed in the next release.  In the interim, make sure that the image is not flush right to the IT window.>>Erosion/dilation/open/close are dimmed. I am using a 496 with 8 Mbyte >ram.These operate only on "Binary" images produced by the manual thresholding command.>>Are there any plans to introduce drawing tools, in particular, the >pencil for writing and erasing? This is very useful for minor touching >up of the image e.g. to separate objects.This feature is slated for later release, probably two releases from now.Thank you for your interest in ImageTool.S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:05:17 -0600 (CST)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: Apparent bugsMessage-ID: <01I1K4AHJJR0006P7O@uthscsa.edu>Recently on IT-List:>I have come across the following apparent bugs in using ImageTool, all>related to the use of Object Analysis. Perhaps they are produced by my >calibration, which is the result of the high magnification of my images.>In any case, the perimeter of the objects is always given as 0. For the>smallest of the objects (about 7 pixels), the major and minor axes are also>given as 0. With my calibration, a 7 pixel object is about 0.001 units of >area.This is possible.  You may want to check the percision page in the settings sheet and add more places after the decimal.>>At other times, I have noted that the minor axis estimate may be greatly>overestimated; for example, the following results might be presented:>Object Number     Area      Perimeter     Major Axis    Minor axis>     1            0.034         0            0.352    98374532.234This is intereesting.  I would like to see your images.  If you have an example, I would appreciate it if you sent it to me at the following email address:  wilcox@xroads.com.One possibility is that you have an object that is one pixel in size.  I will check to see that IT is handling this case correctly.>>Another oddity is that the results are difficult to export, because >apparently>there is no carriage return at the end of each data line. Therefore when I>try to copy the results to the clipboard and then into a spreadsheet, all>results are copied in one long line on the first row. I have worked around>this by setting up a generic text printer and directing the results to be>printed to>a file.We will make sure that this is fixed in the next release, due out next week.>>A final remark is about the positioning of the thresholding window when>'finding' objects. Perhaps because my images are all in landscape format,>whenever I ask to find objects, the window is placed at the extreme right of>the screen - so far right that I can't pick it up, and must hit 'Escape' >to back>up and reposition the image window to the left and start again. I never >learn.This too has been addressed in the next release.  Sorry.>Is there some way that future versions of ImageTool might check to see that>I have not forgotten to reposition the Image window when finding objects?Thank you for your interest in ImageTool.S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:05:20 -0600 (CST)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: Counting thingsMessage-ID: <01I1K4AK1KHC006P7O@uthscsa.edu>Recently the following question was asked,>I would like to use  IT to count numbers of algal cells in a gridded>counting chamber, Is it possible to select a portion of the image to count>the cells in rather than count all the objects in the picture? if not is>this feature likely to be added?>Other features that would be useful would be fill and separate circles>routines and is is possible to move the initial position of the thresholding>box so that it is not off-screen if you have the image full screen on a>fourteen inch monitorOne rather indirect method of performing this is to save separate images of each of the areas of interest to be counted. Them open each and perform "Find Objects".  This is rather tedious but will work until we can get to it.  We can limit the AOI and find only objects within the AOI.. Thanks for the suggestion.In regard to your second question this is provided by using the erosion and dilation function provided in ImageTool.  These function are only available for binary images, it is first necessary to convert your image to binary using the manual thresholding function. These are in the "Process" menu under the filters selection.  They will be active after the binary image is selected.The problem with the Threshold dialog box has been corrected in version 1.2 which should be released next week.S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:05:24 -0600 (CST)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: ~binfltr.dllMessage-ID: <01I1K4ANCSJ8006P7O@uthscsa.edu>Sorry for the problems, this has been addressed in version 1.2 which now supports 16 bit gray scale images and an improved import facility.  This version should be available sometime next week.>I am trying to load some binary files (i.e. skip the header and specify >resolution and number of bits per pixel)  I got ~binfltr.dll from the ftp >site and put it in the "File Filters" directory.  But when I go to open >the binary file I get a dialog box that says >>	ObjectWindowsException>>		GDI Failure>		Ok to resume?>>Did I not install the filter properly?S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:05:27 -0600 (CST)From: "S. Brent Dove" To: IT List Subject: Re: result difficult exportMessage-ID: <01I1K4APX83C006P7O@uthscsa.edu>Recently in IT-List:>There is difficult to export the result, apparently there is no carriage>return at the end of each data line.>>All results are copied in one long line on the first row, into a spreadsheet.>>Could you make the modification to this remark?Thank you for the information.  We will look into this and make sure that it is fixed in the next release, due out next week.  We have added a much nicer interface for the results window that we think will be quite nice to use.S. Brent Dove                            Voice: (210) 567-3333Diagnostic Sciences                      Fax:   (210) 567-3334University of Texas                      Email: dove@uthscsa.eduHealth Science Center                    Web:   ddsdx.uthscsa.eduSan Antonio, TX    USA                   ftp:   maxrad6.uthscsa.edu------------------------------Date: Sat, 24 Feb 1996 20:27:50 +0000 (WET)From: Przemko Tylzanowski To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: printing problemsMessage-ID: Hi!Speaking of the new version of IT. I have posted a while back about the fact that I cannot print a single thing (even the demo images). All that IT prints are empty pages. Apparently this problem did not exist in the version. I hope that it (the problem) would be fixed in the new update of the program.Przemko------------------------------Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:37:15 PSTFrom: Jim McClean To: it-list@sparky.uthscsa.eduCc: j.mcclean@queens-belfast.ac.ukSubject: Re: ImageTool problems (fwd) + problems sendingMessage-ID: On Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:05:13 +0600 S. Brent Dove wrote: > This is a common misunderstanding.  The output of the Find Objects > command produced an outline image for information purposes.  This image > does not have the objects associated with it.  The confusion this feature > brings has gotten it removed from the next release of IT.  As for the > Can you please elaborate on 'gotten it removed'. I hope this does not mean that object analysis will be removed. Will object analysis find and label objects?Thanks for the answers to my other problems/requests.-------------------------------------------------!       Jim McClean                             !!       Computer Centre                         !!       The Queen's University of Belfast       !!       Belfast BT7 1NN                         !!                                               !!       email:  j.mcclean@qub.ac.uk             !!       phone:  01232 245133 ext 3843           !!       fax:    01232 335066                    !-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: Mon, 26 Feb 1996 11:17:20 -0600From: sshaib@lsumc.edu (Shaibani, Sanan)To: IT-LIST@sparky.uthscsa.eduSubject: a few quesiton?Message-ID: <3131EB20.6793@lsumc.edu>1- I have been looking around for an easy to use program with will allow me to track multiple particle in a noisy image sequence without too much coding. Has any one developed a module for IT to handle particle tracking or know another program which can provide a solution?2- Is there a FFT module for IT?3- I know that DT3155 dump data onto the system memory but I am interested in acquiring 30 minutes of NTSC data. Can IT, using data translations DT3155, dump data directly into a fast hard drive sub-system such as a RAID at 30 fps? Can IT use jpeg or Mpeg compression cards?ThanksSanan shaibaniLSUMCsshaib@lsumc.eduoffice: 504-568-6700 ext 437-- MZ------------------------------Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:31:33 -0700From: Don Wilcox To: 'ImageTool List Server' Subject: RE: Development of ImageTool PluginsMessage-ID: <01BB04F7.5CA570C0@slip35.xroads.com>----------From:  J.Glenn@ee.qub.ac.uk[SMTP:J.Glenn@ee.qub.ac.uk]Sent:  Monday, February 19, 1996 10:06 PMTo:  wilcox@xroads.comSubject:  Development of ImageTool PluginsI understand that ImageTool was developed using Borland's C++ version=204.52. The SDK Help recommends the use of Borland C++ in developing=20plug-ins also. Would the use of Borland C++ version 5.0 cause any=20problems which I would avoid if I used version 4.52 ?I have not yet received my copy of 5.0, so I cannot say for sure, but my =guess would be that there will be some changes that will need to be =made.  If UTILib can be easily adapted, I will probably put a revised =version on the ftp site so that people using the source code for IT can =work in 5.0.  Either way, version 1.3 of IT will be developed using 5.0Don------------------------------Date: Tue, 27 Feb 1996 09:33:06 -0700From: Don Wilcox To: 'ImageTool List Server' Subject: RE: ImageTool problems (fwd) + problems sendingMessage-ID: <01BB04F7.65179C60@slip35.xroads.com>----------From:  Jim McClean[SMTP:J.McClean@queens-belfast.ac.uk]Sent:  Sunday, February 25, 1996 07:37 PMTo:  wilcox@xroads.comSubject:  Re: ImageTool problems (fwd) + problems sendingOn Fri, 23 Feb 1996 16:05:13 +0600 S. Brent Dove wrote:=20> This is a common misunderstanding.  The output of the Find Objects=20> command produced an outline image for information purposes.  This=20image=20> does not have the objects associated with it.  The confusion this=20feature=20> brings has gotten it removed from the next release of IT.  As for the=20>=20Can you please elaborate on 'gotten it removed'. I hope this does not=20mean that object analysis will be removed. Will object analysis find and =label objects?"It" is the option of showing the outline image.  IT will still provide =object detection and analysis features, which have been enhanced in the =new version.Thank you for your interest in ImageTool.Don------------------------------End of IT-LIST Digest 10